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	<title>Comments on: Yes you are in a cult, no I don&#8217;t recognise its legitimacy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/</link>
	<description>The weblog of Tony Morris</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Tony Morris</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2260</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 04:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2260</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;
In Haskell, these (Just and Nothing) are correctly called constructors for the Haskell Maybe data type. When emulating a closed algebra with Java, you use inheritance and therefore, call it a subclass.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
Perhaps I should have clarified that point.
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;
&lt;a href="http://projects.workingmouse.com/public/functionaljava/tags/1.2/src/main/fj/data/Option.java" rel="nofollow"&gt;Here is a more robust implementation of the optional type using Java&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;



The names have changed slightly (to reflect ML-style):
&lt;ul&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Maybe -&gt; Option&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Just -&gt; Some&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;li&gt;Nothing -&gt; None&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>
In Haskell, these (Just and Nothing) are correctly called constructors for the Haskell Maybe data type. When emulating a closed algebra with Java, you use inheritance and therefore, call it a subclass.
</p>
<p>
Perhaps I should have clarified that point.
</p>
<p>
<a href="http://projects.workingmouse.com/public/functionaljava/tags/1.2/src/main/fj/data/Option.java" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/projects.workingmouse.com');" rel="nofollow">Here is a more robust implementation of the optional type using Java</a>
</p>
<p>The names have changed slightly (to reflect ML-style):</p>
<ul>
<li>Maybe -> Option</li>
<li>Just -> Some</li>
<li>Nothing -> None</li>
</ul>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Seal Newton</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2259</link>
		<dc:creator>Seal Newton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2259</guid>
		<description>Tony, a question about this link.  You say:

"Therefore, the Maybe data type has 2 and only 2 constructors. It is the “and only 2″ that makes this data type a closed algebraic data type."

but further down, you say the equivalent is to only allow two subclasses of that type.

Two constructors and two subclasses are very different thing, which is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony, a question about this link.  You say:</p>
<p>&#8220;Therefore, the Maybe data type has 2 and only 2 constructors. It is the “and only 2″ that makes this data type a closed algebraic data type.&#8221;</p>
<p>but further down, you say the equivalent is to only allow two subclasses of that type.</p>
<p>Two constructors and two subclasses are very different thing, which is it?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tony Morris</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2258</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2258</guid>
		<description>The moderation was a result of the link.

Here is a post that talks about that link:
http://blog.tmorris.net/algebraic-data-types-again/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The moderation was a result of the link.</p>
<p>Here is a post that talks about that link:<br />
<a href="http://blog.tmorris.net/algebraic-data-types-again/"  rel="nofollow">http://blog.tmorris.net/algebraic-data-types-again/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob Johnston</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2257</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2257</guid>
		<description>I used an f-bomb so the software wants me to be moderated.  Here's my post cleaned up

Nate, don’t give up! Haskell is a deeply beautiful language and learning it will make you a better programmer even if Perl remains your day job! It will make you rethink what a program is and what programming is about.

Don’t let this the too stereotypical conception of functional programmers as played by “Runar” and “Tony” scare you away! Go watch some videos of Simon Peyton Jones and Phillip Wadler. They’re f***ing geniuses who manage to say why they think there are better alternatives to today’s languages without resorting to whining about “cults” or saying that mainstream languages are “useless.” In fact, SPJ jokingly called early attempts at purely functional languages “safe but useless” while traditional imperative languages were “unsafe but useful” http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=326762. It’s pure self deprecating humor. Haskell is useful. See Darcs as a very practical example of what Haskell can do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used an f-bomb so the software wants me to be moderated.  Here&#8217;s my post cleaned up</p>
<p>Nate, don’t give up! Haskell is a deeply beautiful language and learning it will make you a better programmer even if Perl remains your day job! It will make you rethink what a program is and what programming is about.</p>
<p>Don’t let this the too stereotypical conception of functional programmers as played by “Runar” and “Tony” scare you away! Go watch some videos of Simon Peyton Jones and Phillip Wadler. They’re f***ing geniuses who manage to say why they think there are better alternatives to today’s languages without resorting to whining about “cults” or saying that mainstream languages are “useless.” In fact, SPJ jokingly called early attempts at purely functional languages “safe but useless” while traditional imperative languages were “unsafe but useful” <a href="http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=326762" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/channel9.msdn.com');" rel="nofollow">http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=326762</a>. It’s pure self deprecating humor. Haskell is useful. See Darcs as a very practical example of what Haskell can do.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob Johnston</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2256</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2256</guid>
		<description>Trav, don't worry!  I knew you were just re-casting what "Runar" said for maximum comic value.   That's why I come here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trav, don&#8217;t worry!  I knew you were just re-casting what &#8220;Runar&#8221; said for maximum comic value.   That&#8217;s why I come here!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob Johnston</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2255</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Johnston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2255</guid>
		<description>Nate, don't give up!  Haskell is a deeply beautiful language and learning it will make you a better programmer even if Perl remains your day job!  It will make you rethink what a program is and what programming is about.

Don't let this the too stereotypical conception of functional programmers as played by "Runar" and "Tony" scare you away!  Go watch some videos of Simon Peyton Jones and Phillip Wadler.  They're fucking geniuses who manage to say why they think there are better alternatives to today's languages without resorting to whining about "cults" or saying that mainstream languages are "useless."  In fact, SPJ jokingly called early attempts at purely functional languages "safe but useless" while traditional imperative languages were "unsafe but useful"  http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=326762.  It's pure self deprecating humor.  Haskell is useful.  See Darcs as a very practical example of what Haskell can do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate, don&#8217;t give up!  Haskell is a deeply beautiful language and learning it will make you a better programmer even if Perl remains your day job!  It will make you rethink what a program is and what programming is about.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t let this the too stereotypical conception of functional programmers as played by &#8220;Runar&#8221; and &#8220;Tony&#8221; scare you away!  Go watch some videos of Simon Peyton Jones and Phillip Wadler.  They&#8217;re fucking geniuses who manage to say why they think there are better alternatives to today&#8217;s languages without resorting to whining about &#8220;cults&#8221; or saying that mainstream languages are &#8220;useless.&#8221;  In fact, SPJ jokingly called early attempts at purely functional languages &#8220;safe but useless&#8221; while traditional imperative languages were &#8220;unsafe but useful&#8221;  <a href="http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=326762" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/channel9.msdn.com');" rel="nofollow">http://channel9.msdn.com/showpost.aspx?postid=326762</a>.  It&#8217;s pure self deprecating humor.  Haskell is useful.  See Darcs as a very practical example of what Haskell can do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trav</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2254</link>
		<dc:creator>Trav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2254</guid>
		<description>I apologize for calling you guys twats, I'm not a person you should take seriously.  also my comments are not likely to reflect the opinions of programmers capable of any language other than java, my programming knowledge is extremely limited which I'll freely admit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize for calling you guys twats, I&#8217;m not a person you should take seriously.  also my comments are not likely to reflect the opinions of programmers capable of any language other than java, my programming knowledge is extremely limited which I&#8217;ll freely admit</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tony Morris</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2253</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 20:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2253</guid>
		<description>Sean,
Show me where I am wrong using rational argument and I'll gladly concede. Talking shit is unexciting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean,<br />
Show me where I am wrong using rational argument and I&#8217;ll gladly concede. Talking shit is unexciting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Runar</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2252</link>
		<dc:creator>Runar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2252</guid>
		<description>Right, so when reasoning fails, just attack the speaker's tone ("condescension that oozes"), and appeal to emotion ("sickening").

Classic ad hominem (I know this is your favourite, Tony). Tony Morris has committed that most heinous of moral crimes--having a high opinion of himself--and therefore his argument is invalid.

If you look closely, you can also find irony, albeit unintentional ("to be honest").</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right, so when reasoning fails, just attack the speaker&#8217;s tone (&#8221;condescension that oozes&#8221;), and appeal to emotion (&#8221;sickening&#8221;).</p>
<p>Classic ad hominem (I know this is your favourite, Tony). Tony Morris has committed that most heinous of moral crimes&#8211;having a high opinion of himself&#8211;and therefore his argument is invalid.</p>
<p>If you look closely, you can also find irony, albeit unintentional (&#8221;to be honest&#8221;).</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Nessen</title>
		<link>http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2251</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Nessen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.tmorris.net/yes-you-are-in-a-cult-no-i-dont-recognise-its-legitimacy/#comment-2251</guid>
		<description>Yes, yes, we know: anyone who disagrees with you or criticizes you is using flawed logic.

I can't blame you: it's much more pleasant than considering that you might actually sometimes be wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, yes, we know: anyone who disagrees with you or criticizes you is using flawed logic.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t blame you: it&#8217;s much more pleasant than considering that you might actually sometimes be wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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